Abdulaziz M Alhamdan 0:16
Once upon a time, there were 10s of 1000s of makers struggling. Every day they built for hours and hours but didn't chip and didn't earn enough income. One day, the no code wealth podcast came to help them find the way because of this, makers became founders and live the lives they deserve. Because of this, founders live lives of abundance, freedom, and creativity. That's what I'm really all about. Hello, my name is Aziz and from being a poor boy born to a single mother in North Africa with no money, no opportunities to fail in multiple startups, yet, learning a whole lot to barely escaping alive, the war in Ukraine, even living as an illegal immigrant. I've lost everything twice. And now, I'm rebuilding my life one more time 1% A day sharing the wisdom of luminaries of interviewed on this podcast from Google executives to Amazon, Microsoft, Forbes, Technology Council, Harvard Financial Times, and even a priest from the Vatican church. Everyone is welcome, here. So let's begin. My guest today is JJ unglert. JJ is a full time bubble developer at profound strategy, building and helping scale and next generation SEO tool on bubble. He is also a bubble bootcamp Instructure. And built in no code Alliance, a professional organization to amplify the careers for no code developers, home to the no code awards and to resources for employers looking to hire no code, depth. JJ, how are you today?
JJ Englert 2:23
Hey, great to be here. You, you introduce me better than I can introduce myself? Thank you for that.
Abdulaziz M Alhamdan 2:29
You're welcome. It's my honor. It's my privilege to have you here. And to begin exploring your mind and your experience, what seems to be a topic or a goal, or an insight that your mind demands to be thinking about, to have attention focused on, or action going towards these days?
JJ Englert 2:53
Yeah, so you know, I'm a no code expert. And I work full time as a no code developer, specifically in bubble. And I've gotten to the point now where I can bill nearly every hour in the day, which is fantastic. However, at the same time, I don't want to build wealth by having to work every hour of the day to do that. And so now I'm in the position or trying to build the foundation for digital sales, among other things that will allow me to build my wealth from, again, digital sales and things that will allow me to grow exponentially, but without me having to, you know, work every hour of the day for that. So that's kind of what I'm laying the foundation for now is digital sales, digital goods, services that I can, you know, sell in a more sustainable way.
Abdulaziz M Alhamdan 3:45
Wonderful. I'm sure that many of the listeners can relate. And to ask you a question that I don't know whether you have explored previously, there is this insight or Myth or Reality or fact, that if you want to sell courses, you have to focus on personal branding on being some interesting character that captivates audiences because there are too many one hit wonders where one day they're the hot thing selling a course. And then in a few months, people move on to the next thing. So becoming a character keeps them interested. Or maybe you believe that word of mouth and adding so much value in courses enough or I don't know, how do you approach this? What is your thought on it? Do you believe that you will keep a community and an audience for a long time because of community because of quality? Because you're a fascinating character who will be I don't know, like flying over Antarctica, Antarctica, and like spending time on Necker Island with you You know, billionaires, I don't know what you're doing. But what is your thought about this?
JJ Englert 5:04
Yeah, I think you need to have that branding. And that influence, in order for people want to take your class, right, because there's so many a million, there's so many great educators out there, simply put, and every single day really good educational content goes unused on bought sitting there, right. And, and that's mostly because the distribution there isn't there for that kind of creator. And or the recognition and awareness isn't there about, you know, not only the type of content they can get, but people want to invest their time into some something or something that they believe in, right. And if you have that brand, if you have that influence on that community, then them buying your course and spending that additional time is not just about the content that they're learning, it's, it's about learning from you. And that's something that is irreplaceable, and also something that's very hard to do. But once you get to that point, that's when you get really powerful. And things get really exciting, because then you can start to leverage that in a lot of different ways.
Abdulaziz M Alhamdan 6:09
I agree 100%, we actually live in a time of commodities, where it's very, very difficult to be revolutionary, and that next big unicorn, and all that, and the only uniqueness left is your personality, personal brand, who you are because there is only one person who is truly you. And the past history in the future in the Now out of all the billions of people who ever lived and will ever live. And so it's a very sustainable, if we might say competitive advantage, you spoke about values, you spoke how people will invest time learning, and buying or being involved with people and things they're they believe in. So what values do you share in this world? What vision do you have, that you can rally people around? What is it that is the essence of JJ, that makes people think that's what he is all about?
JJ Englert 7:19
That's a good question. And I'm still learning that, and I'm still building myself and trying to figure out who I want to be to. But I know that I have basic principles that, you know, I want to be kind, I want to work hard, I want to give back, I want to be respected. And I don't ever want to be seen as tearing someone down, right? Like, I don't think that's how you build anything up. And also, that's just not the person that I want to be in life. So whether I'm interacting with a waiter or a busboy or anything in life, I just want to, you know, be respectful, just like I would want to be respected. And so I try to carry the values and principles with me wherever I go. And then the next thing for me is, I want to be the best to the best, because that's who I am. That's a competitor that I am, I was raised as an athlete, I've always competed my whole life. And I love the idea of being the best of the best. And one thing, right. And so right now, that's no code and specifically bubble for me. And so I have put together a lifestyle that allows me to spend a great deal amount of time in bubble, and surrounded by other bubble experts to expedite that journey to the top. And so I work full time as a bubble developer, you know, eight hours a day, I also teach bubble boot camps at the beginner, intermediate and professional level at night. Right now I'm teaching four nights a week, which is a little tough. And then I also host and run one of the largest slack groups for professional mobile developers, where each day we have 200 members that we interact with, we talk with, we help each other through roadblocks and tips. And we were constantly learning in that group. And then I'm putting together other resources like no code alliance to help that enterprise movement too. And so as you can see here, all of these things have great synergy with each other. And you know, me working at my job as a full time bubbled up, I'm learning more, I'm able to contribute more to our Slack group, I'm able to contribute, contribute more to the educational courses that I teach at night, right. And then I also have a, a good Twitter presence as well, where I also share those learnings. And so one thing synergizes with everything else. And I have four or five different things that I do on a daily basis, that all bring synergy to each other. And I think that's what is allowing me to move quicker than I previously moved and other paths in my life. And it's also the thing that has given me great joy because I could really focus on becoming the best of the best and one thing and surrounding myself with as many talented people and educational resources and just general professional resources to amplify that journey. And so that's my current focus at the moment.
Abdulaziz M Alhamdan 9:51
I really really love it. Actually, there is a lot of thought and it's Disney strategy to figure out the core thing that you're good at and to manifest it or show it in synergetic Lee and everything you do, and that's something that really, really adds a lot of power and oomph to everything you do and about your values. You mentioned being kind being competitive. I have a question about that. But first, I will share an exercise that I have done, which helped me figure out my five top values, which I have an acronym for it's figure, like fake but with the, ah, at the end, or something where I took a list of all possible human values, I think there was 40, or 50 or more, and I journaled on every single one. What does it mean to me? Is this relevant to me? Can I live without it? Is it the most important and I found out in the end, that it's freedom, intimacy, autonomy, growth, and health? Are my top five values that I try to embody and live in every day? You mentioned something that made me feel curious is that you're very competitive. Yet, you said that you're still trying to figure out who you are your personal brand, and all that? Well, a lot of competitive people, or people in general are afraid of failure. They wait to begin until they feel they're perfect and absolutely ready and have complete clarity, which is unrealistic. So how do you stay competitive and not wanting to lose, yet being open to making mistakes, while you figure out your personal brand, the values you want to share and embody? And the right next steps in your plan?
JJ Englert 11:48
Yeah, you know, it really comes down to practicing and, and batting as much as you can, batting as much as you can, meaning, you need to take as many swings as possible to know what hit it and what doesn't, right. Like, if you just try one thing, you'll never know if that one thing existed, you need to just be out there every single day, testing the waters, seeing what works, seeing what feels good, you know, and seeing what maybe didn't resonate well. And and find your direction that way. And, you know, I think right now, what I'm referring to is my presence on Twitter, you know, I tweet on average, 10 times a day, right? And maybe that's a lot to some, maybe that's not a lot to others, right? From if I were to think about that two years ago, I'd say wow, that's that's a lot. Right now it feels alright. But you know, it's I just throughout the day, I'm constantly in bubble building, teaching, whatever. And so I'm constantly learning stuff, I'm constantly have all these thoughts in my mind. And I, and I like to quickly share those thoughts or share my learnings from those thoughts, right. And I have begun to develop a style of how I approach this, share this and how I kind of, you know, building a story that maybe others want to join in on and listen in on and see what's going in, going on. And so, you know, it's, I want to be the best of the best. But I also know that it takes a long time to be there. And I also know that I'm not there yet, and that there are a lot of other smarter people. And that's perfectly healthy. And that will always exist. But right now, I'm just trying to surround myself with as many of those smartest people as possible, collaborate with them, learn together with them. And together, we could rise up and get there and be a part of a premier group of bubble developers. And so that's my focus. Now I'm not trying to take any one person down. I'm trying to surround myself with like minded people in that area, and all grow together.
Abdulaziz M Alhamdan 13:39
Thank you. I love this topic, because I love that book by Grant Cardone, the 10x rule that whatever effort or planning you're doing for your goal, expected to take 10 times more effort than you think. If you think you tweet once well, then next that if you think you need to tweet three times per day, you probably need 30, or something to arrive, or three times the duration, or anything like that. And there is this argument that some people make, that there is a myth within the no code community that encourages people to make more projects in order to learn, which goes along with your thoughts about practicing, that the more you do, the more you'll be able to evolve your skills become part of the premier elites have a bubble or whatever no code platform that is being used, while other people say that's totally a waste of time, spend more time finding problem that you can make money with. There isn't enough focus on that and the no code community, sending people on wild goose chases, to practice more, rather than do a good enough job to help people that can get your revenue ASAP and then you can use that money To help more people and grow and have financial stability, and that more is not better. What is your thoughts on this? Do you believe there is value actually in practicing and perfecting and becoming a top 1%, no code practitioner, compared to actually spend more time figuring out problems doing less projects, but more impactful with immediate returns,
JJ Englert 15:26
there's a stage for each of this, right. And the first stage is learning and preparing yourself to be that professional developer that can make a lot of money, which we certainly can't. But in order to get there, you need to do a lot of practicing, and you need to really build your skills up to a point where they're respectable. And once you were to do a client project, it would be such a phenomenal result, that this, the results would speak for himself, in the sense that you add it to your portfolio, they showcase it, you know, they refer you to everyone else, etc. You don't want to hit that market too soon, where you build your first project. And it's terrible, and you get a bad reputation. And, and it doesn't work well, all that kind of stuff. And so while I am an advocate of getting paid projects to, to practice and to learn more, and I think that's is a next stage, I think the first stage of learning bubble is learning bubble, and building a lot of your own projects, where you can test a lot of different strategies and builds, and get really familiar with it all. And then once you feel good about then you've put out some projects that, you know, have seen, you know, have been received well by the community for the stability, the user experience, it solves problems for their customers, etc, then move into that client phase where maybe you're taking 50 to $75 an hour, so a cheaper rate, but to build client projects, and to continue to learn and build your skills and your portfolio that way. And then you'll soon get to the place where I am now, which is I don't have enough time in the day left to actually take freelance work. But if I were, it'd be at $150 an hour. And I'd be very selective and what I did, and I'd have a minimum project size of probably $20,000, right. And so you work your way up through each of these stages, to the point where you feel comfortable with in each stage. And then your skills can speak for themselves at each stage, right. But you need to put yourself into a position where you're constantly building and growing and practicing on a daily basis to get there faster, because otherwise, it's just going to take you 234 or five times as long. And right now, you know, I spent 12 hours a day in bubble. That's too much. I'm not suggesting you do that that's not quite healthy and sustainable, long term. But for you know, for the last six months, I've been doing a minimum of eight hours a day, normally 12 hours a day, you know, for the last six months. And I was already a professional bubble developer making six figures at that point. And I've been doing that since then, do you I mean, and so I'm not exact, I'm not doing this to brag, I'm doing this to show you the work that I'm putting in, even when I was already, you know at that level to get to the next level beyond that level.
Abdulaziz M Alhamdan 18:11
Thank you. I love what you're sharing. I want to know or share something that some people I heard saying that you cannot take any person and make them a no coder or a bubble developer or as one said, You cannot go get a gardener who was like tending to plants and turning them into a bubble developer doesn't work that way. They need to have an understanding of software architecture, of how data interacts with each other have UX experience of so many fundamental supposedly things that only then they can become or begin to be bubbled developers. Do you agree with this? Do you feel that any person could if they put in the time, that eight hours a day or anything like that, they can become excellent. Or people need to go as well. Someone was saying first to take some basic computer science or app development courses to get the theoretical understanding before they begin to practice.
JJ Englert 19:24
I think we as people are incredible, and we could do anything we want. We just need to be determined and work hard enough for it. And when I was got started in the tech industry four years ago, I was originally a non technical founder. And I came from the entertainment industry and I wanted to build a tech solution. And I always thought I wasn't smart enough to learn how to code always. And that was why I never even attempted it because I didn't think I could do it. And so I hired engineers and and I built a team that way. And it wasn't until I finally kind of I got pushed off the mountain in the sense that I had no more money left to pay my engineers. And either I learned to code or the business dies. And that's when I taught myself bubble, right. And so I had all the concerns in the world thinking that I wasn't smart enough, I have dyslexia, I have other issues that make it a little bit harder for me to learn, right. And so I was very worried about this. But I took it one step at a time, I took one course, one lesson at a time I practice, I got excited, I got passionate, I practice more. And I've kept practicing for the last two years, to the point where I am now. And yes, it takes time. Yes, you need to learn these things. But if you give yourself the time, if you work hard, if you stay determined, no matter who you are, you can do this. And I will say that while bubble has a high learning curve, it is also significantly easier to learn than many other languages. And the ability of bubble is that you can learn one language bubble. And that will do everything for you. That is your database scene. That is your workflows. automations. That is your UI UX. That's everything. And so my old technology, which was an enterprise stack on a Microsoft suite, we had 10 different languages that we stacked together. And it would have been impossible for me to learn all 10 of those in a year 234. So I chose bubble because I wanted to pick one language that I could learn and master. And then that one language would bring me from zero to hero enterprise businesses that get millions of traffic to their sites each day, all built on bubble, and it's possible. And so that's why I love bubble. And one of the reasons why I'm such a nerd or Fanboy and bubble is because the possibilities exist, the barriers to entry have never been lower. And with the bros, the growth and the promise that we're seeing from this company in this industry, it just seems like the perfect time to be a part of it. And to help pave this path forward for us all.
Abdulaziz M Alhamdan 22:02
I love your optimistic as well as insightful take on the matter. And so I have to ask, what do you see as the future of no code and bubble? What trends do you view as future trends that will become our daily existence? Do you see any new technologies or new things happening? That will be the next level or the next big shift? What is your insight into the future?
JJ Englert 22:33
Yeah, so I think I have a good answer to this because I've seen it happen in another industry already. And so I come from the film industry, right. And I spent seven years as a filmmaker and producer I was I'm a member of the Producers Guild of America, I've produced feature films, directed feature films, commercials, music, videos, etc. During that time, and through during the last 20 years, the film industry has had a major switch where normally we would use film cameras, 35 millimeter cameras, right. And that was the original look that everything was shot on. And while film is a beautiful high quality look, it's so unrealistic in the sense that it's very expensive to buy all the film, it takes a long time to process all the film, it's very sensitive in the sense that it could crash easily, right. And then one day digital cameras were invented. And while the quality of digital cameras wasn't quite there, in terms of matching up to 35 millimeter film, the speed that introduced the convenience and introduced, changed the entire way we made films, and slowly digital cameras replaced film cameras. And now digital cameras are the main way that we shoot all content. Right. And it now has the quality has the past it the speed has the past that the time to create has just 10x 20x from the old cameras. And I think this is what's happening from traditional code to no code is traditional code is our 35 millimeter film. It is very powerful. But it's very slow. And it's not practical for common day businesses, and no code and to know code. Not as powerful yet. But superior. It's way faster, way more convenient, way more practical for businesses. And because of those use cases. For the business side, we'll continue to see no code rise to the point where it completely repeat replaces traditional code in the sense that maybe traditional code will only be used 510 years from now as a legacy or as a homage of like, oh, I want to build this add in traditional code, just because to respect the beauty of what it once was, rather than because it's superior because I think no code is going to surpass that. But just like what we're seeing today, digital cameras came out and we shoot all of our Hollywood movies and digital cameras but now look at the consumers with their iPhone cameras. shoot in 4k 5k on their iPhone. And so no code will continue to get to the point where consumers can really build anything. And we're already seeing that with apps like glide and air table and all the things where you could just start to build apps very quickly. And we'll continue to see that trend, all the way to the point where mass consumers can spin up their own apps, and share them in a very, very quick, easy way. And then again, enterprises and main companies will be using no code for their main stack, because of all the advantages that it gives to the company and the developers.
Abdulaziz M Alhamdan 25:36
I love this. It's exciting and motivating. And I'm sure a lot of people who are listening will be driven to learn more from you. Well, if the listeners want to know more about the work you do, if they want to be part of any announcements on any upcoming digital products and courses, what are the best links, the best social media, or the best places for them to go? And I'll make sure to write a few in the description.
JJ Englert 26:09
Thank you. Yeah, you could follow me on Twitter at JJ Englert, I am very active there. You can also join no code alliance.org It's a free place to create your no code portfolio. Within there, we have a list of salaries for each no code industry or no code tool, bubble Webflow, etc. And that is part of my initiative to bring transparency and grow to the no code industry by showing the market, you know, what folks are making to help set those market wages as this market grows. So you can create a free portfolio there, you can gain insights into what you should be charging an hourly and a salary basis. And other people can also hire you through there. And that would be it, you know, so contact me on Twitter if you want to talk anymore if you want to follow me and engage and yeah, I would love to talk to you more.
Abdulaziz M Alhamdan 27:05
Thank you, JJ. This was enriching. This was a wonderful conversation full of twists and turns and a lot of great ideas and insights. So I wish you a great day. And thank you very much. Thank you