Abdulaziz M Alhamdan 0:16
Once upon a time, there were 10s of 1000s of makers struggling. Every day they built for hours and hours but didn't ship and they didn't earn enough income. One day, the no code wealth podcast came to help them find a way because of this, makers became founders and live the life they deserve. Because of this, founders live lives of abundance, freedom, and creativity. That's what I'm really all about. Hello, my name is Aziz and from being a poor boy born to a single mother in North Africa, to failing multiple startups, yet, learning a whole lot to barely escaping alive the war in Ukraine. Even living as an illegal immigrant. I've lost everything twice. And now I'm rebuilding my life. One more time. 1% a day sharing the wisdom of luminaries have interviewed on this podcast from Google executives to Amazon, Microsoft, Forbes, Technology Council, Harvard, Financial Times, even a priest from the Vatican church. Everyone is welcome here. So let's begin. My guest today is Stephanie McKee Zielinski. Stephanie has been a multimedia host since 2012. And currently hosts live virtual events with inside.com, a media company focused on tech, business, and venture capital. She is the daughter of two public school educators. So Stephanie spent eight years as an art teacher in a public school district in Florida. And she has taught in K 12 public and private schools, in prisons, and in many community centers. She has a passion for community art, and social justice. Stephanie, how are you today?
Stephanie McKee Zielinski 2:28
Hey Aziz, I'm great, thank you.
Abdulaziz M Alhamdan 2:31
I'm feeling privileged, honored, and very, very, very lucky to spend this time together. And as an educator, as a teacher, I want to understand, what is your perspective on the education system or teaching? Or how are information and education happening nowadays?
Stephanie McKee Zielinski 2:54
Well, I think that every school is extremely unique and should cater to their specific demographic of students. I think that in the American education system, there's so many different models. And I think a lot about public schools. Because I attended public schools, my family's always worked in public schools, and I worked in public schools for eight years. So the big question that I'm always thinking about is, are some kids not ready for school? Or is the school system not ready for them. And it's a sliding scale, right? Like there's schools that do a great job of preparing for and catering to the specific demographic of students they serve. And some that are still working towards that. And it's a really complex equation to figure out, but it's one that I think about all the time.
Abdulaziz M Alhamdan 3:45
Thank you. And let's get a bit more controversial or even fringe. Sure, you know, when the industrial revolution happened, and there were factories created and things like that. Many argue and think that people like Andrew Carnegie and whoever were the industrial big barons at the time, made the school system happen so that they prepare people to be good employees and obedient and following rules rather than creative human beings who have their own path and their own perspective. Do you agree with this? Do you think about it in this way, because even in my country, which at the time was tribal, when there we had independence, the first president which was somewhat more of a dictator, he made it illegal and it is in many countries for you not to educate your children because he said famously that as long as we have education, we will have one nation and therefore I can rule but to hit our educational system, we will have tribes and I cannot rule diverse people. So what are your thoughts about this?
Stephanie McKee Zielinski 4:57
Yeah, your point about tribalism is inter sticking because as far as I understand, when I apply tribal thinking to myself, it's more just like going with things as they are and not looking at them critically, it's like a very insulated way of existing in the world, like only being around people that are like you. But the Carnegie example, I think that it's easy to, to have like a conspiracy theory about like the school model like that, like, oh, the government is trying to, you know, not make critical thinkers. But I think it's a human problem. And I think it is a human challenge, like it spans countries, I think it's really difficult to become a critical thinker. And it's way easier to just be spoon fed anything and everything in your life. And I think that's just like, the the challenge of the school system is to help young people enjoy doing the difficult thing of learning and thinking for themselves.
Abdulaziz M Alhamdan 6:05
Thank you, that makes me think about, you know, the modern day struggle with algorithms and how they say, well, they show us just specific information, they keep us siloed. And not thinking critically, but others will counter argue that that's what people want. It's not that we're shaping people into that. It's people want that easy, bite sized, exciting, sensational information, rather than to think and make life more difficult and that the human brain is created to conserve calories. And therefore thinking, I think it was for too sad. Thinking is the hardest thing that any person can do. And that's why so few people can do it. And he said, at that time, way before Facebook, or Instagram and all that, again,
Stephanie McKee Zielinski 6:56
Maybe thinking outside of your comfort zone, you know, getting perspectives beyond your own and considering those
Abdulaziz M Alhamdan 7:03
great. How do you incorporate that into any kind of teaching that you approach? Do you feel? Because there is also another thing, which is a problem psychologically that, as in I don't remember the saying exactly. But that in the world nowadays, we have so many confident idiots and everybody who is smart is is unsure and unconfident. And they will say, well, probably this is the situation. And to the best of our current knowledge, this is it while the other people who are not like, are too dumb to realize they're wrong. They're like, No, this is how it is. And it's like black and white thinking, which a lot of people in a world where we live a life where nobody really knows what's happening is full of uncertainty. And so they gravitate towards people who seem to have the final answer to everything. That's why colds exist and all that. So as an educator, do you see like, do you approach it as something where you give people multiple perspectives? Which humanly could make you come across as weak? Having? I'm just saying it how it is? Or do you try to follow some model that something they say, okay, while children are in high school, or like teenagers and all that, let's give them one answer. And then when they get to college and university, let them understand the new nuances. What is your perspective?
Stephanie McKee Zielinski 8:35
So to start, there's like a foundation of positive language. In a public school classroom, it, it's really easy for students and teachers to get overwhelmed and for issues and conflict to arise, especially in the types of schools I taught in. And there's a lot of negativity. There's a lot of students that learn early on that they, like, haven't been successful in school, maybe as a very young person by no fault of their own. And they get discouraged and they start to hate school. And they have this idea that I can't learn anything. You know, you're talking about, like people that are overconfident in their knowledge and maybe more educated people being under confident because they realize the more they learn, the more they don't know. But I think positive language is a big part of the foundation for learning because you want to have that growth mindset. You want to think like, even when this is hard, I can do this and learning can be fun. So I try and create a learning environment that's like that. As far as critical thinking I was lucky enough to teach visual art. I was the recipient of a magnet school of visual art education in middle and high school and taught at my alma mater High School, which is an arts magnet. Um, but no matter what school I taught, I taught at three different schools. And I was always trying to teach critical thinking skills, which is a crucial part of art, because there's no one way to do art and no one way to look at it. So I think that like, I maybe wouldn't have been a teacher if I weren't teaching art. But the longer I taught, the more I realized that like, every teachers reading teacher and interdisciplinary education is really effective, like using one subject matter to teach the others. So yeah, I tried to make a positive fun learning environment and lots of structure to we can go into why I needed a really structured classroom for the demographic I served. If we want to
Abdulaziz M Alhamdan 10:53
thank you. Yes, we will delve into many things. But first, I have a question. I remember calling period, or probably you don't know him much is more of the internet marketing space. But he did his education as a, an art, you know, an art college and all that. And he said, it taught him about marketing, because what he used to do, he will just scribble or do any rubbish, as he called it. But as long as he had a story about it, to present the teacher, and to the students, he always got good grades. So he taught him the idea of storytelling, that we will come and he will say, this is supposed to represent the inner conflict between blah, blah, blah, and people like saying things like that. And he will say, it doesn't matter. Sometimes he used the same piece of art, if he was crunched for time, to present again and say, Well, I found deeper meaning into blah, blah, blah, and then everybody will be impressed. Do you agree with this? Do you feel that?
Stephanie McKee Zielinski 11:52
Yeah, I told my kids that so like, in the arts magnet program that I taught in, which was the only application program in the district, so in our public schools, you are allowed to go to whatever school you want to, but this one arts magnet you had to apply to. So we did get really high caliber artists in this school. And when it came time for critique, which we had every week, I told them, like, you can say whatever you want about this piece, you just have to justify it with evidence. So yeah, definitely open to any sort of meaning or interpretation. And it's funny that connection to marketing, because, you know, I have now gone from the art world to the teaching world, to the tech world, and even becoming super fascinated and no code as a creative tool to build businesses online. And I really wish that kids that were seen as creative in K through 12, were shown more technical ways to apply their creativity, ways that are more marketable, and that can lead to a more stable financial future instead of just the arts.
Abdulaziz M Alhamdan 13:05
I love this topic. It's very interesting. And let's address creativity. A lot of people believe that creativity is somewhat of a stroke of genius of coming up with an idea out of the ether that never existed before, and therefore, the handicap themselves, they don't even try or share their ideas with the world or materialize. And because of this, what is creativity to you? Is it like some people argue that well, there is a difference between like, a revolutionary idea and an evolutionary idea, and that, nowadays, creativity is a new combination of what already exists. What is your perspective on it? How can people be more brave, when they're, they're greatly as Bernie Brown will say, when being creative sharing their idea and being open to criticism and failure?
Stephanie McKee Zielinski 14:06
Creativity is a skill that anyone can learn. I hate hearing people say, Oh, I'm just not creative. Because if you want to develop that skill in yourself, you can. There's a lot of research about pulling back the curtain looking under the hood of creative geniuses because it's not just a spark of inspiration from the ether. Although I do believe nature and nurture both play a part. But there's a lot of nurture there. There's a lot of environment and learning. You know, we've all heard of the 10,000 hours rule, practice something for that long to master it. But a lot of research and education has found that deliberate practice is extremely effective in developing creative skills. And I'm talking about like, the higher level thinking, the synthesis that happens when you're making or painting or playing an instrument, or maybe even dancing. Because it's not, you know, rote memorization, a successful artwork is not just something that's copied from something that someone else made. It's an original idea where you're synthesizing a lot of different thoughts and images and concepts and technical skill all together. So deliberate practice, is getting constant feedback and making constant direction. So I could just like, bring my sketchbook to a train station and sit down and sketch for an hour. And that would be a valuable artistic practice, because I'm drawing from life. And the the natural world has a ton to teach you just by looking at it. But what's even more effective would be if there were an instructor next to me, and you have to be willing to learn, right, the teacher shows up when the student is ready. So a student that's ready for deliberate practice, and to get constant feedback, you know, with each figure that you draw, the instructor pointing out a correction, and the student quickly making that correction. So no matter what the subject area is, you know, way beyond the arts, that kind of deliberate deliberate practice is like a really effective way to learn quickly.
Abdulaziz M Alhamdan 16:23
Thank you, that makes me think that actually, a lot of people, they say, practice makes perfect, but I heard that perfect practice makes perfect. And that's what you're speaking about with having a teacher or someone to provide feedback to guide you into the right direction. And all that, although at some point, maybe the rebel in me or the creative will say, Well, if we do that, we will have a copy copycats of the teachers, rather, someone expanding into uncharted territory and discovering their own unique styles. At the same time. This is a very important topic and subject. For example, art. And since you're immersed into it, you see its value. Maybe you see how it can be a distress, like not a distress, like a distress signal, but like stress reduction tool for, for people, entrepreneurs who are busy, overwhelmed, and all that, how can make time for art in their schedule, help them either reduce stress and or get more creative ideas or open those creative channels in their life? Did you notice it? And what is your recommendation for someone doing it for this purpose, rather than technical proficiency,
Stephanie McKee Zielinski 17:46
I think there's a lot of practices that deliver the same benefits that like, a creative practice would, and everyone's so different, it's all about what's right for you and your personality type, I tend to move very fast. And the reason I'm so grateful for having a painting practice for my whole life is because it moves very slow. So for someone that maybe tends to move slowly, throughout their day, maybe they would want something more fast. Not that like a CEO is going to be that kind of person. But it's all about finding that practice that levels you out or is something that you're missing in your life. So you know, whether it's swimming, or walking or cooking. You know, I love drawing and painting because I can't function at the, like, not just the pace, but like the kind of level that I'm functioning at when I'm clicking away through 1000 tabs on a computer, you know, like brings me back into the present moment and into my mind and body. And yeah, I think that whether that's a creative practice, you know, playing music or listening to music, or even something like reading a book, I think it's just really valuable to return to ourselves and stop moving at the pace that technology asks us to move at all day.
Abdulaziz M Alhamdan 19:09
I really love that. So it's more meditative, rather than an outcome. Focused practice.
Stephanie McKee Zielinski 19:18
Meditation for sure. Yes,
Abdulaziz M Alhamdan 19:21
I love that and I agree with it. And anything can be meditation, even like slow eating or mindful eating or walking or anything to ask you then there is this issue in business, but I would like your artistic perspective on it. A lot of people say, Okay, follow in what I love, even though it won't make me money. It's worth it. While others say well follow the money isn't even if you do what people value what the marketplace wants, and that's what you need in an artistic like an art Just expand on it, an artist who is not talented, but they love art. And even if they spent their whole life doing it, they will never be as good as some virtuals are born with it. Would you say to such a person I know you won't say like, give up. But let's say they want to do it professionally and dedicate their life to it. What do you say? Okay, do it because at the end, do you want to regret that you tried? And until like the last minute? Or would you say keep this as a hobby? Do what will get you like paid that what? Your talent, even if you're not in love with it, but you're born with the right combination of skills and genetics to do? Do that make art a secondary? Or do you say follow your heart, follow your bliss, like Joseph Campbell. And then as good as that the universe will conspire to help you somehow that is unknown now. But those doors will open in the future.
Stephanie McKee Zielinski 20:58
I think it's like, if you think it is so the I went to the Maryland Institute College of Art in Baltimore. And there are some peers of mine that became very successful artists. And what was true in their mind was that they could only do art, like a studio practice, it was studio practice, or bust, whether they became financially stable and successful through their studio practice or not. That's what they were going to do. And so that like passion and drive, and mindset is the most important ingredient in whatever you're doing. Everyone comes from such different life circumstances. And I think the reason I'm so interested in K through 12, education, showing young people, how many different jobs are out there, and how many well paying jobs to use really creative parts of your brain. I think there's new jobs being invented every day that didn't exist before that no teacher in a classroom even knows exists, so they can expose their students do it. But we've all heard of that triple Venn diagram, when it comes to choosing what to pursue in life or in career, which is passion, skill, and what the world needs. It's like, what do you love? What are you good at? And then what does the world actually need? So I do think a lot about that what the world needs peace. Because that's like, looking outside yourself, you know, taking the blinders off and thinking like, you know, where could I solve real problems in the world, which is what entrepreneurs like to do. But yeah, when it comes to those people who are determined to only pursue a creative practice, I call them an artists, artists or like a true artist. It's not the only definition of an artist, but it's like our classic definition of an artist, like they just have to make art. But that is a mindset that you can shift in yourself if you want to maybe you believed all along that you can only do that one creative career of or vocation, but you know, we're adaptable, we can learn and do different things.
Abdulaziz M Alhamdan 23:19
Yeah, that's wonderful, those that the diagram you spoke about is iki. Guy. And it was a really interesting thought process to go through it. And it's very valuable. When you uncover things that you didn't know you had inside answers that are absolutely wonderful. You spoke about jobs, that there are new jobs that are coming up, that are being created nowadays that nobody is imagining them today, but they will exist. We live in a world where there is a lot of AI developing a lot of automation, a lot of things that replace a lot of the work that people used to do. At the same time, we're expanding to like 8 billion people on the planet and more. So there could be at some point, a crisis where too many people are out of a job for things will be stable, but the hopeful, optimistic people say in the future, people will use the uniquely human skills that are available anywhere like that, that already exists within them, but they're not developed to create the new jobs and new ventures and new technologies. The new are the new everything. What you as an art teacher, what do you consider the things that are uniquely human, that require a human spirit for them to happen, and that you believe should be a focus for people now to develop and to learn so that they're ready or they're competitive, and a future marketplace that could be dominated by AI?
Stephanie McKee Zielinski 24:57
I think a lot about how to continue to live in that human part of ourselves, we have to be walking around in the real world, you know, taking off our shoes and putting our feet in the grass kind of thing. I learned so much every day about the metaverse, web three and the way that technology will immerse our lives and, and it's only growing. But the job component I do, the more the more I'm in my current job with insight.com, where I'm learning about tech and business and venture capital every day, and economics and markets. The more I realize that there is more than enough in this world to go around, like, I come from a scarcity mindset as a young person, and I'm really shifting into like the potential of abundance in the future. And I don't think that automating basic tasks, like when you think about a pyramid of learning, there's like rote memorization at the bottom. And at the top is actually creation, creativity. So those like base level, lower level learning, or performance tasks that computers can take over, I don't think that's a bad thing. Because it does open up more time for us to be creative and live in that more human part of our brain. I mean, no one would say, oh, I want to go back to the muddy medieval era, where I have like, a 1% chance of being someone that like, eats a healthy meal every day and has any sort of free time and like 99% chance of like, just toiling away all day, every day and like having a lot of pain and misery in life. Then again, you know, another human part of ourselves is relationship and family and friends and love. And, you know, even if you're toiling in a job all day, you can have those things. But yeah, like the the jobs that are going to be replaced with AI, I think if we look back, we've never thought like, oh, this was a horrible thing. And yeah, I really hope that in the future. We don't get, we don't get sucked so far into tech. And it like takes us over in such a bad way that we can't return to the human parts of ourselves.
Abdulaziz M Alhamdan 27:25
Thank you. I know what you mean, those like dystopian ideas that we will live in a future that is similar to the matrix where we're plugged into the metaverse and we have no more real social life or real interactions or probably will be eating like food that doesn't taste that good. But it shaped like the Elon Musk thing that's gonna be put in the brain will make it taste delicious or whatever. Just to simulate a great life. From our conversation so far. When you think back about education in the public schools. What do you feel is missing? What could be improved? And if someone is a parent nowaday, and they're thinking about their children, given them an actual headstart in the future, so that you homeschool them? Should they just give them like Udemy, logins and things like that for them to learn on their own? Or how should they approach to level up education so that their children are actually ready for a world that is moving more and more and more into ways that are faster, harder, everything requiring you to be more specialized, more unique, and to find this out faster and faster.
Stephanie McKee Zielinski 28:49
Parents are a child's first and most important teacher, and you can start teaching even someone as young as two years old, how to identify letters and phonics. That's the Headstart that my parents gave my siblings and I, before we entered kindergarten was, it was called Hooked on Phonics. Maybe some listeners out there have done it themselves when they're very young. It's just cards. You know, you just learn the names of the letters and you learn the sounds they make. And then when you start putting those sounds together, they create words and then when you put words together, you can read sentences. Reading is like the core of education and in our public school system, there's a lot of reasons why young people entering kindergarten may already be a little bit behind. But I think one of the greatest gifts that parents can give to their kids even before they start school is teaching them to read. Now in our public schools, once you get to third grade, you stop learning how to read and you have to start reading to learn. So when I taught at drop out Prevention, a dropout prevention middle and high school, I didn't have a single middle school student that was above a third grade reading level, because they never learned how to read, they got left behind, which then impacts every bit of their learning from that point forward, because you have to learn other subject areas by reading. So you were asking about things that parents can do to foster education in their children. So reading is just everything. And then you asked about what schools can do to better serve children. And I think that trauma informed teaching practices are one of the most crucial things. I had a real epiphany when I went to a national conference for Dropout Prevention, because I learned about what happens in the brain when you are in a fight or flight mode, which is caused by trauma. And it really restricts your access to the learning part of the brain. So it started to click to me why my students have been in school for so long, but actually hadn't learned anything. And there's, I learned about all the definitions of trauma, like prolonged stress from like, financial instability, food instability, housing instability, which like most kids experience, I don't know if like the upper class knows that, but like, it's tough out there, you know. So I just realized that like, all of my kids have experienced trauma, like tons of them have experienced just the instability of those things that come with, you know, being from low socio economic household and stress and violence, and all these things. And it really impacts your ability to learn. So, schools are getting good at teaching their teachers how to keep trauma in mind when they interact with their students. But hiring good teachers is really hard, we need to pay them more, we need to incentivize doing a good job and have consequences for doing a bad job as a teacher, because in public school that doesn't exist. So you just see a lot of like, overwhelm and burnout and complacency in teachers that have been in the public school system for any amount of time. And then the last thing I would say that schools can do, to better serve kids is restorative practices, which in the school district I taught in, they were implementing, and that's more of a message to young people that you belong, and like we are your people, and we're here to work with you versus a punitive approach, which is like, you will be cast out if you mess up.
Abdulaziz M Alhamdan 32:47
Thank you. I have personally experienced trauma, and I understand what you mean. But I will play the devil's advocate a little bit. Because I heard this counter argument that said, Look, throughout human history, altered children suffered all kinds of trauma, parents were not present. They were wars all the time. Bullying was very normal, they were neglected. They will run around getting like into fights or getting hurt or harmed or whatever it is. And they grew up fine, supposedly. And they created the world we live in today and that today, this extra carefulness around a trauma and like children is just a way to reduce entire fragility. And it's a modern thinking. And we couldn't have, like survived for millions of years as a species or before that. And all that if trauma wasn't part a normal part of life. And even Okay, I will say another thing. In biology, one of the definitions of being alive, is that you get irritated by the environment, which in other ways, it's like trauma and growth. What are your thoughts about this? Do you think such people are speaking nonsense? Or do you feel we're at a stage where we can go to the next evolution? So we need to be extra careful, rather than let people or children roam around getting exposed to traumatic events and things all the time? Or what is your perspective
Stephanie McKee Zielinski 34:20
on trauma does build resilience? I guess, I think that in the past, there have been maybe more self motivated learning with all of our ancestors that experience so much trauma. Maybe there's a disconnect between the public school classroom and what it asks of a student, you know, to show up each day and to fit into whatever mold that teacher expects. Yeah, it's definitely possible to be successful being someone that's experienced trauma, but you just have to I guess work through it and have a loving environment that encourages you. And trauma informed practices are just one of many, you know, components of a successful education, I think, you know, helping young people find their passion and find something that they're interested in, that's going to be the motor in them that that intrinsic motivation that kind of fuels their learning, because you know, you can't learn for them.
Abdulaziz M Alhamdan 35:27
Thank you. And to finish. And before we finish, I have to get your perspective and insight and advice on even adults improving their reading. Because for a while, I've been somewhat caught up in the fast reading, like trend, and I found that actually, reading and comprehension are two totally different things. So one of my favorite books is how to read the book, I think it's from the 70s or, and it's about slow reading that you should read the book. It's by Mortimer, Mortimer Adler, where he speaks about how you should deconstruct the ideas and the book, explore them, spend time thinking about them, in order to make the book part of you and have somewhat of a conversation with the author, about what you agree on what you disagree on what you have noticed in life, what questions or hypotheses you can test to know the validity of any author's argument, etc. And therefore, he said, The world is filled with well read illiterates. That is argument. What is your perspective on improving reading? Even like you spoke about a lot of your middle school students being at a third level reading grade, like reading, maybe some adults are walking around that level? For sure. Yeah, for sure. So what's your advice for them to improve their reading? What practices can they implement, as well as your perspective on fast reading or slow reading.
Stephanie McKee Zielinski 37:07
I like the piece about comprehension, because that is what it's all about, now that how to read a book author, suggesting to dive so deeply into the content and to think so critically about the content you read. For that to happen for me, I would have to be really into that book. Or I would have to maybe have it as an assignment that I then like, present to a group and there's accountability for doing it. And I get the praise of the group for doing a good job or something, because it's one of my motivators. But I think that an unimportant thing for adults to consider when it comes to reading, it's, it's so hard to find time to do that, you know, our phone is such a quick, easy dopamine hit constantly. And I think it's really important to find books that you like, I have an aunt that when I was younger, she would take me shopping, clothes shopping, and she would buy me anything I wanted. But I had to love it, I couldn't just like it. And this happened, you know, this, this kind of shopping trip happened like two or three times in my life, which is why it stood out to me. But when it comes to a book, like if you start a book and you thought you would love it, and you only just kind of like it, you're not that into it, you don't have to finish reading it, like really find books that you're super, super interested in. And some practical skills would be pre reading. So just kind of flipping through the whole thing, making predictions about the content, you know, reading the book jackets and just getting an idea of the overall arc of what you're going to be reading. And then annotating. I mean, that the how to read a book author suggesting to like ask questions about the content you're reading is interesting. I know that when I'm reading a book, and I actually have the physical book, and I can actually take out a pen or highlighter and underline something impactful to me, I get more from that book, I remember it more. So writing and annotating in books is a great way as well. And then the accountability piece, I feel like reading is such an important practice. And it's almost like with a with someone's diet, like your diet often reflects the diet of the people you spend the most time around. So if you want to be a reader, maybe you figure out a way to be around readers, whether it's a book club or you know, telling your partner that you have this goal of reading a book and, you know, maybe doing it together or even just like saying, Alright, I'm gonna read tonight and then trying to hold yourself accountable to it. Yeah, I think that those are ways that reading can get done. And then yeah, like annotating or writing summaries or, you know, right writing in a journal or writing something online, after you read can help you, you know, comprehend and retain it more
Abdulaziz M Alhamdan 40:05
100% Me personally, my top one strength in StrengthsFinder is a learner, I love learning, it's actually meditative for me to read the book or something. I've read a lot, hundreds of them probably over 1000, I think I calculated but I have like, 5000 on my Kindle for me. So, but still, you know, it's like, prioritization and choosing and like checking the review and all that I recommend to everybody to learn, I believe, okay, I will ask you this, because you are exposed to children in many ways. And I know there are people with different styles of learning, and you spoke about whether children are ready to for the educational system or whether the educational system is unfit for them. What are your thoughts about this? Do you believe people are born so different that well, some people should go to school while others should have a different like in Finland, I know the educational system. For children, a lot of it is about playing, being in like playground that teach you colors and teach you, whatever that involves a lot of kinesthetic and movement in order to absorb life lessons and a lot of social interaction. But while for others who could be more introverted or socially shy, they would prefer to be with a book alone, reading at home or something. What is your perspective? Are people so different that some people are right for the educational system while others are not? Or do you feel the educational system should be more flexible, adaptable, and able to teach children in the way that they can absorb the information and comprehended correctly and in the easiest and simplest and most natural ways,
Stephanie McKee Zielinski 42:04
American public schools are becoming more flexible and more creative and experimental, which I think is a good thing, because there's just endless models for it. There's endless ways to learn. I remember after Hurricane Katrina in New Orleans, they had so many schools that were destroyed that they had this renaissance of like reinventing new models of schools, and the KIPP program came out of that, I think. But I think we do a good job with magnet schools where students can look at a specialized program that might interest them and go towards that. At the arts magnet I taught at those arts classes were like, the only reason those high schoolers came to school every day, someone has to have something they connect with at school that encourages them to go there. Charter schools work, I think that there's so many different models of learning, once you get in the classroom, like Personalized learning is just this idea that like, the teacher should know the learning styles of their students. Universal Design for Learning is something that I like a lot because it it's almost like this message that if you record your lesson as a video, and make that available to students that maybe have difficulty hearing to listen back to or give them headphones, or any sort of like assistance you can give for one is good for everyone. I also am a big fan of experiential learning, I had a lot of classes in college, and in studying abroad that just shoved you out into the real world. And you learn by doing you know, which is not really a school at all, unschooling, another big trend. And then project based learning is, was the philosophy of one of the schools that I worked at, which is not learning subject by subject. It's very interdisciplinary, but it's like a collaborative learning like the team has this project to focus on and they move through it almost in a similar way that you can like move through a project in like, the real world in a job. But yeah, I think there's a lot of ways of doing it. And thinking that you know, just the old rose in a classroom and sage on the stage teachers restrictive, you know, the message now as more you're a guide on the side, and you have to let the students curiosities and collaboration kind of drive learning.
Abdulaziz M Alhamdan 44:38
I agree with you. Thank you very much, Stephanie. This was a privilege and honor and enriched in conversation and if people want to learn more about you to follow you to discover more about your thoughts, what are the best links for them to do so? And if you want to share anything about any projects you're working on currently, please do so.
Stephanie McKee Zielinski 45:04
Yeah, I am on Instagram at s MkII studio. And my website is Stephanie McKee studio.com. And those places can kind of like send you out into other projects that I have online. Yeah, my, my ask, I guess would really be for inside.com. Because, you know, as he's just like you do here I am fortunate enough to get to have conversations with interesting people all the time, especially around web three XR, those are like my favorite topics right now. And we do events about every facet of business and venture capital. So if anyone listening Oh, even no code, which is, you know, the big idea behind this podcast too, so yeah, anyone that like has companies in those areas can definitely email Stefania inside.com And we can arrange fun conversations just like this.
Abdulaziz M Alhamdan 46:05
100% Thank you, and I wish you a wonderful day.
Stephanie McKee Zielinski 46:11
Thank you. It's been amazing to talk to you as these thanks so much.