Episode Transcript
Abdulaziz M Alhamdan 0:16
Once upon a time, there were 10s of 1000s of makers struggling every day they built for hours and hours but didn't ship and didn't earn enough income. One day, the no code wealth podcast came to help them find the way because of this, makers became founders and live the lives they deserve. Because of this, founders live lives of abundance, freedom, and creativity. That's what I'm really all about. Hello, my name is Aziz and from being a poor boy born to a single mother in North Africa, to failing multiple startups, yet, learning a whole lot to barely escaping alive the war in Ukraine even living as an illegal immigrant. I've lost everything twice. And now, I'm rebuilding my life one more time. 1% a day sharing the wisdom of luminaries I've interviewed on this podcast from Google executives to Amazon, Microsoft, Forbes, Technology Council, Harvard, Goldman Sachs, Financial Times, and even a priest from the Vatican church. Everyone is welcome, here. So let's begin. My guest today is Cor van Drieberge. Cor is a brain and boxing trainer and coach who helped start in managers and young executives improve their resilience and leadership skills through martial arts core. How are you today?
Cor van Drieberge 1:53
Hi Abdulaziz. I'm doing really fine. Awesome to be in the show. And thank you for the invitation.
Abdulaziz M Alhamdan 2:00
You're welcome. I'm feeling very happy, very honored to have you here. And I will begin with this question, which is a lot of people who need to spend a lot of time on their desks, whether executives, managers, IT professionals or whatever, over time, they train themselves to lose touch with their body, and they are more inside their brains. How does that affect their brain and their mental health and their resilience and everything like that?
Cor van Drieberge 2:35
Well, I think a lot of articles have been written about it about the new disease called sedentary life, sitting down the whole day, at least eight hours a day or more. And one of the things that happened, we are actually still animals, we need to move, we need to be alive, we need to jump around. And the things that they are learning us is to sit still do what is said and watch to a screen, look at the screen. And that's the only thing that we haven't been taught by nature is something that we've been learned by doing. And it actually affects us our mental health very much, especially the last two years. In the during the COVID crisis, a lot of people actually became more depressed because they were sitting down all the time. And they didn't know where it came from. And well, I can talk a lot more about how the brain and body connects. But people were completely disconnected with their body because they sat down and the brain goes in overdrive, in the simple sentence.
Abdulaziz M Alhamdan 3:36
Thank you and to explore even more from your experience, is there something like a problem, or an insight, or something that over time you discovered about the people, the clients you help? That is something that maybe they didn't know, but you realize is a deeper problem causing many of their symptoms or it's teaching that you try to remember to tell to everybody because it makes a big difference in their life?
Cor van Drieberge 4:07
Well, one of the things of the western world is that our brains, we've been learned to only work with our brains. If you look at different cultures, from that perspective, you will learn to move you learn to listen to your body, you learn to listen to other things and only what is said. For example, you may both studied at our Erasmus University, though, as he's that was a long time ago. Yeah. And what do we do? What do I what I found out is that we only learn to use our brains instead of okay, the body helps, for example, already presenting better while I'm talking. I'm actually moving my hands a lot so that I can really express myself into that feeling of like, okay, yes, I really want to tell something, I'm really enthusiastic about it. But those things are not learned. And they need to be relearned, actually, because by Nature, we are moving beings, if we are enthusiastic, we use our body to express it first. And then our brain gives the right words give the right thoughts to help you. But if you are not using your body, your brain will actually do the opposite, it will start thinking in bad terms, because our brain is programmed mainly for the negative part.
Abdulaziz M Alhamdan 5:20
Thank you that's really, really interesting. And well, imagine one of the listeners is an executive or an IT person. And either they say, or I haven't moved like that for years, or I'm not a sports person, or I'm getting too old for, you know, capoeira, or whatever it is, and therefore, I'm not so flexible. What would you tell them? Because they might think, okay, I love what you're saying. But you're telling me to do something that my body is not nimble and flexible to do? What's your response? Because,
Cor van Drieberge 6:00
well, I really want the whole world to do capoeira. For all the people who don't know what it is. It's a market. It's a martial arts. Some people say it's a fighting dance, but it has its origins in Africa, brought to Brazil, I will, I will skip the whole story, but because that will take a few hours. But what's important for, from what I've learned from the capoeira perspective, is that if you already can sit up, sit down and stand up a few more times a day, you're already doing movements. If you use your shoulders a bit more like really what you would do by by nature, by stretching, if you look at animals, a simple stretch every few minutes, is really good for your for your brain, for your body. And even you know, there are some people who cannot sit still. And they will always say, yeah, you have to sit still. But actually, that is one of the simplest movements while you can still, we still seated, and keep on moving your toes, feel that your body is alive. And that's the executive that is afraid to move, or is not aware that he's not moving, or she is moving. To start using that make simple movements with your feet, wiggle your feet, during especially if you have this fancy desk chairs, you can definitely turn on your seat a few times an hour. And it will already make you feel more active and actually more efficient while doing your work because your brain will support that.
Abdulaziz M Alhamdan 7:22
Thank you. This is really, really, really valuable. And then I will ask you, because businesses and corporations, first and foremost, they need to care about their profit. And they're, you know, including their executives in programs that help their minds that help their bodies, that maybe they hire you in order to train and coach their executives. So for smaller businesses who don't do that, who might think well, those hours could be wasted while my people should be working or whatever they're thinking, What benefits do you see that are real and tangible and pragmatic, to bring coaching and boxing training and Capoeira and all that, to businesses who could have add to their budget, a budget specifically for such coaching and training?
Cor van Drieberge 8:19
Well, it will cost their money if they don't let their employees move, or even themselves, doesn't matter how big or small the company is, it will cost you money. For example, if you ask any employee randomly, how many hours do you really, really, really, really, really work, they will say they will say, maybe I'm effective to three hours during the whole day. And then they're often nine hours seated, staring at a screen, staring at their phones being distracted by colleagues, and all these things. So my advice to spend time on it on movement, especially when you're a small team, you can actually use it as also a way to connect with each other, like, hey, let's do this together, let's let's do a short walk or let's get out of our seats, even though you think it will cause some time even even a break of 10 minutes every two hours or will already help you improve your productivity. And it can be from from 10% to 56 to even 100 or 200% because you brought movement in the system. Because our brain needs to rework what we've been doing. For example, if you've been sitting behind a screen, which is unnatural, for one hour, are very nice to process this information and that takes time. And the best time to process information is to simply take a short break this way I don't I don't promote smoking, but a lot of smokers who take their smoking break. Yeah, I need to get 10 minutes out of the behind the behind the behind my desk. And that definitely helps because because of that people are people are are actually more effective. And they'll and other people are like you're complaining here, the smokers always take a mental break because they need to smoke. But if you ask really who's more productive, it would be the people who take regular breaks. So I would promote it in movement in just getting out of out of the chair. And another tip on that taking a break is not going to watch your mobile phone, because that's another screen you will be looking at. And then your brain doesn't relax. Actually,
Abdulaziz M Alhamdan 10:28
I love that you're speaking about up to Roshi about. I'm happy that you're speaking about taking breaks about productivity about all that stuff. And so to make sure that we translate this into people's lives, do you feel what's your opinion about burning out? How can someone avoid it, and especially entrepreneurs who are worried about where the next money check will come? Therefore, they feel this survival drive for them to do more to prospect more to spend more time working. But of course, they will risk burning out, what's your advice to them, in order for them to feel more okay and more accepting of taking breaks?
Cor van Drieberge 11:20
Well, the thing is, first, prioritize what you really want. For example, if you're an entrepreneur, I was, for example, myself, I'm a solo entrepreneur, but I work with many people in different projects. For me, I decided I need to care carefully decide what I'm going to put my attention towards to, for example, this interview is something that I really like, I like to share stories, but I cannot do it everywhere. Because if I would do it everywhere, my voice would have been gone by now. I need to train people because I need to one of the parts of my work is training people and speaking in front of people. So I need to be conscious, where I put my energy in. But coming back to the burnout part, burnout is basically the two factors that need to be in place, you need to have a high sense of responsibility, and the feeling of control. If you don't have, if you don't have both of them, have if you have, if you've lost your control, your sense of control, and you have a responsibility, then the chances of burnout are way higher within people than when you don't have it. So what you need to learn to do is to let go of things, is easily said than done. But for example, if you know, as a sole entrepreneur, I don't like to do my administration. I really dislike that, because all the invoices then need to do the taxes and all this blah, blah. And what what really helps help me is just to say like, Hey, I download the program or buy program, and from people that are checking if I'm putting in everything correctly, so I don't have to worry about the technicalities. And that is a part of letting go. But also another form is stress, the real basic form of stress, like I have to do this so that the way you talk to yourself already causes you like that you're going to focus not on what's important, you're going to focus on the minimal things that are actually taking most energy and have less impact and less on yourself because you're tiring yourself out. And again, take a break from it from yourself and actually get a coach, get somebody or get a friend that can tell you that, hey, you're focusing too much on the wrong things, and get refocused all the time to let go to burnout so that you can get your own sense of control back. Because if you have that back, combined with with still the feeling of less responsibility, because of course you're responsible for your own business, but then you will take the pressure off, and then you still can continue.
Abdulaziz M Alhamdan 13:51
I really, really love that. And yes, you mentioned it's important to get a coach or a friend or something like that. Let's say one of the listeners want to interact with you to know what your services are. How does it work? So imagine that, what do you do? How does the training work so that someone can imagine exactly the experience? So it's not unknown? And you know, that when people face something unknown, there is a fear? And so clarity is always helpful?
Cor van Drieberge 14:25
Yeah, definitely a good thing. Good question, by the way, because it is actually person based what I do, especially with the individual coaching, what I first do is simple assessment, like what do you really need? And a lot of people like yeah, I don't feel like I feel something is off. I don't feel confident, whatever is going on, or there's something blocking in my head and I cannot move really. So I'm going to first assess that. That's the first step. And then I'm going to get people moving like really moving which Through martial arts, for example, Boxing, boxing, and kickboxing is what I mainly use as a coaching tool. And then I'm going to let them teach them how they can assess their own bodies. And when they understand their how their own body works, then I can go to the connection of the brain, because they exactly know how to tell stories, they can come up with excuses. And the brain is so awesome in that, if you want to find out how smart people are, ask them about their excuses. And knowing that, combined with a body, if you if you use the body, namely, your brain will not is not able to override it, and using the body, and that's what I'm going to teach them. They can overcome their thoughts they can use, like, okay, my brain is now firing, I really need to do this, oh, my shoulders get tensed. Okay, how can you cope with it, okay, relax your shoulders, and the thought will go away. For real. And the simple things, it sounds simple, because I've been doing it quite a while. But if you become aware that you are able to do that, that's what I help people with. And those to get really in touch with their, as you've already mentioned, Mind Body, and actually the Spirit because the Spirit is like the fire that off the engine, like it lights you up.
Abdulaziz M Alhamdan 16:20
I really love this. But I have to ask because a lot of people speak about marketing, that selling improvement in this way you are people don't have a disease or a problem already. It's very difficult because prevention, human beings always think, Oh, I'm going to be okay, it's going to be alright. compared to if you're saving someone from a problem that already is happening to them. So, and the it'll be like 0.1%, or whatever, people who actually will be able to care. So how do you do it? Is it that online? is attracting to you exceptional people who care about prevention? Or are you finding a way to communicate the value of this in a way that people can understand? Although human beings really, they think, oh, it's not a big deal? I'll be okay. And therefore they procrastinate on improvement?
Cor van Drieberge 17:18
That's actually a quite long question. But I will, I will try to make the answers as simple as as possible. Prevention is something that we always take off too late. But the often people say, actually, in a lot of research, they say that the body is actually the first mind. It's, it's quicker than your brain. For example, when it's called your body, your brain is not saying it's called first. It's your buddy that's going to shiver, and you will get the signals and the thing, is that what we need to learn? And that's what I'm also sharing with people listen to your body, what is your body saying, Oh, I feel tense, okay. And then you're going to start asking questions. Okay, what outcome? Do you think your body stands? Oh, yeah. When I think of work, or when I think of family members, or my partner, or whatever is going on, that will come out then. And when they understand that the body is signaling that, and that is something that I keep on, keep on telling, then the brain will can, the brain is able to make a real connection, we are to actually the only beings that can think ourselves crazy, because we can also do it the other way around. If I want to say I really want to feel happy, and you think yourself back to a time that, for example, when you were little, you were playing around with your nice story or what your best friends, then your body start to relax, your body will be in that mode, like I want to move, I want to be happy, I want to jump around. So you can work in actually two ways. So for me, it's it's a, a dot, something that keeps on going, I need to keep on training people on that. And for the marketing purposes, I don't want to market it as a marketing thing. It is something that needs to be ingrained. Like we have the institution like institution of law, the same idea I want to have that that people are using are aware that they're not only their brains, but also their bodies, their bodies are actually signaling faster than their brain.
Abdulaziz M Alhamdan 19:14
Thank you, really, if you're doing a great service for people for the world, and you mentioned a lot about people tensing up or tensing their shoulders when they think about work. And I will ask you then, is it the stress that is in in the work that they do that causes that? Is stress necessary to have in our lives? Or is it something that we could somehow even eliminate, so we don't have to tense up and need to relax each time and train our body so the cause disappears? Or do you recommend to more and more people to do what they love so that it's not work? And therefore maybe there'll be more Relax. What's your opinion on this? Do you think if people do what they love, it's hard to be successful, they have to do work that causes them stress, and therefore, they have to learn through their body to let go. Because there is no other alternative, or what's your opinion on this?
Cor van Drieberge 20:17
Well, my opinion is if you do what you love, you still can be stressed out and burn out. And I've experienced by heart. You mentioned a few times that I bought capoeira. And one of the things I liked about capoeira as teaching. But there was a period that I've been teaching like for weeks, weeks, weeks, weeks, straight on for a few months. And since we were in COVID, time, and I seen a lot of people, I actually contracted COVID, in a nasty way, have ended up in the hospital with a long COVID. And I had to recover from that. And I got a bonus, I got like a turbo osis in my in my leg at one in my lung, I got everything that you know, as an outlier work perfectly. So even if you do what you love, you can get stressed out. And stress has, is good. And it is bad. When you have when you don't have stress in your body at all, you're you don't have pressure your body, your blood will not flow through your body. So you will basically die. If you are too stressed, your blood is pumping to heart, everything is going to heart and then you will burn out. So you need to find a balance which which and discover for yourself, which gives you good stress. So like happiness is a good stress. But if you don't if you do it too much, and not sometimes they can step back from it, then you need to relearn, okay, what takes the pressure off. Because always good things, for example, people will love to party, five days a week, they will burn out because their body gets stress of nice things. But everybody gets also exhausted of going out being in a bad sleeping condition. Probably also alcohol, especially your party a lot, there's a chance that you use alcohol or other substances, which I totally not promote, because I really dislike those kinds of distances myself. But you'll burn out even if you do. And the other way is the same if you do something that's with or without within, not within your values, for example, a lot of people and they did research between 70 to 80% of people are not in their place at their work. So they go already stressed to their work, but also the way to their work for for example, where they take the car, they go to traffic jam, they are exactly waiting, okay, at that point, that traffic stop. People are really shouting and arguing, and almost make avoiding a an accident, and all these things. And then you need to start your workday. And that is something that gives you especially when it builds up over time, it will break you and will actually make you less effective, it will actually make you feel like okay, I really want to die. And what happens often on a Monday morning. And as that's a thing of Les Brown, what he always used in a speech, a lot of people die on Monday morning, their former heart attack, because they don't want to go to work. They don't want to go to the same boss. But the other way, if you do too many happy things, you will die happy. But stress in stress needs to be balanced out. So to say
Abdulaziz M Alhamdan 23:17
thank you, this was a really important and psychologically insightful conversation. Thank you core. And if people want to learn more about you, what are the best social media or websites or anything to do so and I will write some in the description of this episode.
Cor van Drieberge 23:38
For me, what really works most easy easily is the LinkedIn where you can meet me, I have multiple Instagram pages, but if you search my name core foundry bhairahawa You will get my Instagram page from quarter coach, which was my nickname when I started this, this adventure 10 years ago. Exactly. So I hope you can find me there.
Abdulaziz M Alhamdan 24:01
Perfect. Thank you so much. I wish you a fantastic day. I wish you to keep elevating the world helping people and helping the brains, the mind and the bodies of all those clients who are lucky to have you.
Cor van Drieberge 24:17
Thank you very much, Aziz.
